[KB] [Fwd: Re: FW: Where did Burke say this?]

Antonio Raul De Velasco (adevelsc) adevelsc at memphis.edu
Fri Mar 6 13:38:12 EST 2009


I could be mistaken, but I think that the "response" that Greig Henderson is referring to is not the one to Booth in 1974, but Burke's 1978 CI piece "Methodological Repression and/or Strategies of Containment."  Like Prof. Klumpp I gave this document the old college try as well.  Nada.  Though I did find another use of "solemn."

-Tony de Velasco


-----Original Message-----
From: kb-bounces at lists.purdue.edu [mailto:kb-bounces at lists.purdue.edu] On Behalf Of James F. Klumpp
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 12:05 PM
Cc: kb at purdue.edu
Subject: Re: [KB] [Fwd: Re: FW: Where did Burke say this?]

I did not remember the quotation being in "Dancing with Tears in My 
Eyes," but I gave it the old college try for Greig's sake.  I loaded the 
article and searched on "sole" since that was the point of objection 
that said it couldn't be Burke.  What came back was "solemn" and 
"console," no "sole."  Thought that was almost the perfect Burke 
response.  (And, by the way, "soul" wasn't there either.)  So, no, 
Greig, not there.

Cheers
Jim Klumpp

G. Henderson wrote:
> Hi Clarke,
>  
> I can think of one thing that might be worth checking out.  I  seem to 
> remember a response that Burke made in Critical Inquiry, a response to 
> Fredric Jameson's "The Symbolic Inference," which was published in the 
> same journal if memory serves.  That might explain Burke's use of the 
> word "materiality."
>  
> It's a long shot, to be sure, and I can't find my copy of the journal.
>  
> Cheers,
> Greig
> 
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* rountrj at uah.edu <mailto:rountrj at uah.edu>
>     *To:* kb at purdue.edu <mailto:kb at purdue.edu>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, March 05, 2009 12:33 PM
>     *Subject:* [KB] [Fwd: Re: FW: Where did Burke say this?]
> 
>     Thanks everyone for the help. It looks like she's barking up the
>     wrong tree on this one.
> 
>     Clarke
> 
>     ---------------------------- Original Message
>     ----------------------------
>     Subject: Re: [KB] FW: Where did Burke say this?
>     From: "Stan Lindsay" <slindsa at yahoo.com <mailto:slindsa at yahoo.com>>
>     Date: Thu, March 5, 2009 11:01 am
>     To: "\"" <blakesle at purdue.edu>
>     "Kenneth Burke Discussion List" <kb at purdue.edu>
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>     I searched my expanded concordance and couldn't find any use of the
>     terms "delineate," "materiality," or "symbolization."  That doesn't
>     mean he never used them, but it adds to the developing conclusion.
>      Stan A. Lindsay, Ph.D.
>     Department of Communication
>     Florida State University
>     slindsa at yahoo.com
>     http://www.stanlindsay.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     ________________________________
>     From: David Blakesley <blakesle at purdue.edu>
>     To: Kenneth Burke Discussion List <kb at purdue.edu>
>     Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 6:15:01 AM
>     Subject: Re: [KB] FW: Where did Burke say this?
> 
>     The closest I could find to the passage Clarke mentioned is in "What
>     Are the Signs of What" in Language as Symbolic Action where Burke
>     talks about how an infant "receives through its senses the
>     impressions of nonverbal things" (see p. 362). It's an idea that he
>     repeats in the Chapin documentary also. Burke mentions there that
>     infant means "speechless." Burke's discussion actually does sound a
>     lot like this Schopenhauer idea (nice find Drew!)
> 
>     Dave
> 
> 
>     On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Drew Kopp <kopp at email.arizona.edu>
>     wrote:
> 
>     "If anyone standing before a beautiful landscape could for a moment
>     be deprived of all understanding, then for him nothing of the whole
>     view would be left but the sensation of a very manifold affection of
>     his retina, resembling the many blobs of different colors on an
>     artist's palette. These are, so to speak, the raw material from
>     which just a moment previously his understanding created that
>     intuitive perception. In the first weeks of life the infant feels
>     with all its senses; it does not intuitively perceive, does not
>     apprehend; it therefore stares stupidly at the world" (Schopenhauer
>     _On Vision and Colors_ Payne translation 12).
>      
>     The use of the word "infant" reminded me of this passage
>     from Schopenhauer's early text (1818). In any case, the "Burkean"
>     passage is very Kantian, that is, transcendental, which invokes a
>     priori conditions (rooted in faculties such as the "understanding,"
>     or "reason," AKA symbolization) for the possibility of experience
>     (and of any cognition of that experience). Schopenhauer certainly
>     tried to extend this line of thinking in his own way, and I imagine
>     Burke was familiar with his work (though he only makes a passing
>     reference to Schopenhauer in P&C, and a not so generous one at
>     that), and so in some ways had to contend with the seductive powers
>     of transcendental reasoning.
>      Drew
>      
>      
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Jim Moore
>     To: kb at purdue.edu
>     Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:08 PM
>     Subject: [KB] FW: Where did Burke say this?
> 
>     kb folks:
> 
>     Is the quotation Clarke is trying to locate actually Burke?  It's
>     hard to
>     know out of context but, as is, it sounds more categorical than I would
>     expect when I read "the sole means by which humans come to know
>     that materiality."  I think Burke had enough of a sense of humor to
>     use an example like a baseball bat to the head to refute that bit of
>     piffle.  The final sentence sounds very Burkean but maybe isn't Burke.
>     I'm curious anyway.
> 
>     Jim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     ________________________________
>     Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 16:05:04 -0600
>     From: rountrj at uah.edu
>     To: kb at purdue.edu
>     Subject: [KB] Where did Burke say this?
> 
>     Fellow Burkelers--
> 
>     I got a request from a fellow scholar trying to locate the following
>     quotation in Burke (if it's his):
> 
>      >
>      > "believe that symbolization is the sole means by which humans
>     come to know
>      > that materiality. . . . . Prior to symbolization, the material
>     world looks
>      > much like the hazy outlines an infant might see. It is
>     symbolization . .
>      > . which enables humans to discern, delineate, order, and value
>     reality."
>      >
>     Is sounds like P&C to me, but I'm away from my office and unable to
>     check. Anyone know?
> 
>     Clarke Rountree
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-- 
James F. Klumpp
2130 Skinner
Department of Communication
University of Maryland
College Park, MD 20742-7635
Email: jklumpp at umd.edu
Voice: 301.405.6520
FAX: 301.314.9471
Website: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~jklumpp/home.htm
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