[Cytometry] Problem with BD CS&T laser settings

Christopher Bare flowmail at verizon.net
Tue Jul 21 14:39:33 EDT 2009


Hi, Dave!

CS&T is the bead based Cytometer Setup & Tracking algorithms BD has
introduced in the DiVa6 software to automate setting laser delay and
scaling, and optimal PMT voltages. It is based on the paper by Holden Maeker
and Joe Trotter "Flow Cytometry Controls, Instrument Setup, and the
Determination of Positivity" Cytometry Part A 69A:1037-1042 (2006).

If you haven't seen this system, I assume you are running DIVa version 4 or
5 still?

I firmly believe that users should not be allowed to make delay or config
changes, which is why this dialogue box can wreck so much havoc.
Unfortunately, if there is a button available, someone will push it no
matter how many signs you post to the contrary! It's sometimes like a
child's Saturday cartoon, Tom and Jerry or something.

Cheers!

-cbb

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dunaway, Dave [mailto:Dave.Dunaway at nationwidechildrens.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 11:14 AM
> To: Adrian Smith; Christopher Bare
> Cc: Cytometry List
> Subject: RE: [Cytometry] Problem with BD CS&T laser settings
> 
> Chris,
> 
> What is CS&T?  I currently have 3 LSR's in our core running DIVA and I
> don't even know what you are talking about.  We have self-users as well
> but nobody but me makes any adjustments to delays or scaling.  Users run
> beads for Quality Control to assure that the machines are operating
> properly but nothing more than that.  Why would someone want to go in
> and change the delay if your QC looks good across all lasers and PMT's.
> Too many "button pushers" out there to allow the users access to these
> adjustments let alone anything to do with changing configs.
> 
> Dave Dunaway
> Nationwide Childrens Hospital Research Institute
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cytometry-bounces at lists.purdue.edu
> [mailto:cytometry-bounces at lists.purdue.edu] On Behalf Of Adrian Smith
> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:54 AM
> To: Christopher Bare
> Cc: 'Cytometry List'
> Subject: Re: [Cytometry] Problem with BD CS&T laser settings
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> Thanks so much for writing this up in so much detail for everyone.
> 
> We had come across the same problem recently and have resorted to
> pasting the correct laser delays on a card on the instrument so that
> people can double-check they have the right settings before they
> start. Most of them have been good at choosing to accept CS&T settings.
> 
> In fact, it seems that this may be an extension of problem we first
> noticed with the introduction of the user controls in Diva 5.
> Basically it was possible then to get into the situation where someone
> could have the laser settings changed under them with no ability to
> change them back. The situation where that could happen was much more
> limited (basically you had to have a some users with full or partial
> permission to change some settings, and some users with no
> permissions) so maybe it wasn't common.
> 
> I did submit a detailed report to BD but don't believe I heard back -
> and there are clearly some additional traps in Diva 6 that are going
> to catch a lot more people.
> 
> (I can't remember if I sent a report to list - I thought I might have
> but I can't find anything in the archives).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Adrian Smith
> Centenary Institute, Sydney, Australia
> 
> 
> On 21/07/2009, at 5:18 AM, Christopher Bare wrote:
> 
> > Flownauts!
> >
> > We at Rockefeller recently discovered a dramatic "feature" of the
> > DiVa 6
> > software utilizing CS&T to set laser delay and area scaling when
> > applied in
> > a multi-account (multi-user with different logins) setting that can
> > cause
> > drastically wrong values to be applied. That, of course, can make your
> > parameters falsely negative for the entire octagon/trigon.
> >
> > The Problem:
> > When a user logs in, DiVa checks the database against the Current CS&T
> > values stored on disk. If there is a mismatch, the user is given a
> > Dialogue
> > Box asking to "Use CS&T" or "Keep Current." If the user clicks "Keep
> > Current," the instrument laser settings are changed to non-current
> > (out-of-date, invalid) values EVEN IF the user does NOT have
> > permissions as
> > assigned in the "Administration" window.
> >
> > The laser settings that the user previously used may be very very VERY
> > different from the current instrument configuration (say, if a new
> > laser was
> > added).
> >
> > A Solution?
> > If an account does not have permission to adjust delay and scaling,
> > they
> > shouldn't get the Dialogue Box asking them to keep current! BD should
> > reprogram DiVa to ALWAYS apply Current CS&T settings for non-
> > permissioned
> > accounts.
> >
> > We have instructed our users to ALWAYS choose "Use CS&T," but not
> > everyone
> > listens, or understands. Failure can render subsequently acquired data
> > invalid and useless. And unlike compensation or airbubbles, this can
> > not be
> > retrospectively repaired.
> >
> > A fix is better than a workaround.
> >
> > I found this because a user complained that his CD3 APC was all a big
> > negative smear. I noticed his 640nm delay was 18 instead of 32. I
> > applied
> > Current CS&T and his positive population magically appeared.
> >
> > We run two self-service LSRII (one 4 laser, one now 5 laser). We
> > define a
> > single Instrument Configuration for all (200+) users with parameters
> > names
> > for laser source and PMT position (e.g. 488-B) in order to prevent any
> > conflicts for mismatched configs and avoid end-user mistakes. We
> > deny users
> > the ability to change delay and scaling, instead administratively
> > run CS&T
> > weekly and post the numbers on the machine for user confirmation. We
> > do not
> > allow users to run CS&T themselves, or create and use alternate
> > Instrument
> > Configurations. We recently upgraded one machine from 4 to 5 lasers,
> > and
> > reordered their intercepts. This changed all delays (except 488).
> >
> > The way DiVa sets a user's laser delays and scalings:
> > If the user chooses "Keep Current," DiVa sets the values according
> > to the
> > Last Tube created by the user during the previous login. If the user
> > does
> > not have any tubes in the database, DiVa uses the user values from a
> > different user_account_laser_defaults table, which is set when the
> > user last
> > logged OUT. So if CS&T has been run since the user last logged in,
> > there
> > will be a mismatch and the user gets the Dialogue Box.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Cris Bare
> > Rockefeller University
> > Flow Cytometry Resource Center
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cytometry mailing list
> > Cytometry at lists.purdue.edu
> > https://lists.purdue.edu/mailman/listinfo/cytometry
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Cytometry mailing list
> Cytometry at lists.purdue.edu
> https://lists.purdue.edu/mailman/listinfo/cytometry
> ----------------------------------------- Confidentiality Notice:
> The following mail message, including any attachments, is for the
> sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
> and privileged information. The recipient is responsible to
> maintain the confidentiality of this information and to use the
> information only for authorized purposes. If you are not the
> intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the
> intended recipient), you are hereby notified that any review, use,
> disclosure, distribution, copying, printing, or action taken in
> reliance on the contents of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If
> you have received this communication in error, please notify us
> immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
> message. Thank you.



More information about the Cytometry mailing list